WEBVTT FILE 1 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:21.000 Delia Morinelli, thank you for giving this interview to The Granaries of Memory. For 35 years you were Ancel and Margaret Keys' cook, what did you cook for them? 2 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:58.000 Everything, but always simple dishes nothing rich. They didn't use meat, chicken now and again, rabbit when they had it,mackerel, sardines, anchovies more so, spaghetti, and when they had them , squid and baby octopus 3 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:47.000 For pasta we made lasagne, without meat or meatballs, we used a little ricotta, egg whites, as the yolk contains a lot of cholesterol, a little cheese and red sauce, sometimes we mixed in a little white cheese sauce. 4 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:53.000 Always these simple thing, this was our habit. 5 00:01:54.000 --> 00:02:01.000 Did you make fresh pasta, like cavatelli and fusilli? And how! Did they like them? 6 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:36.000 They did, always. Then bean soup, a good lentil soup should never be missing in the fridge 'Delia if you aren't here tomorrow I'll have something to eat' said Professor Stamler, the only one still living. 7 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:50.000 I heard from him a short while ago, 'Delia how time flies, I'll back in December' 8 00:02:51.000 --> 00:03:03.000 He's fantastic, he had a hip operation, and uses a wheelchair as he can't walk, it's nothing for him to catch a plane and come 9 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:10.000 C'è ancora da imparare da loro, che coraggio che hanno! I'm still learning from them, what courage they have! 10 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:22.000 Margaret and Ancel Keys' books are known all around the world , making the Mediterranean diet better-known,there are a lot of recipes in that book, many yours, which for example? 11 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:41.000 For example, aubergines, always simple dishes nothing elaborate. When I cooked aubergines, do you know how they liked them most? 12 00:03:42.000 --> 00:04:00.000 I peeled the aubergines, then put them into water, then peeled the potatoes in the same way then cut them into slices, those potatoes were so big..... 13 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:19.000 And then I added parsley, a little clove of garlic, tomato, a pinch of oregano, and made one layer, then a layer of potatoes, then a layer of aubergines and so on 14 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:28.000 Then I cooked it on a slow heat and it was a treat for them to eat 15 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:32.000 Have you ever eaten this dish with them? 16 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:49.000 Not with them because do you know how I worked in the beginning? Always because my husband didn't want me to, because he had a hard life on the sea and wanted me to wait for him here in the morning. 17 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:16.000 From one house to the other in the beginning, both houses, I finished at midday in that house, I brought a courgette roll or something like that which I ate while going down to the other house. 18 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:32.000 I arrived there and started work so I would be back home at 3.30pm,for my husband, who then went to sea, anyway there was no other way 19 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:51.000 There wasn't any other way, when they had parties, when the Professor celebrated 50 years in medicine, many professors from all over the world came to the Keys. Naturally also Stamler. 20 00:05:52.000 --> 00:06:07.000 Then at Stamler's home, there were great friendly meetings held there, I helped then and cooked and generally stayed with them, I have always worked. 21 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:15.000 What did they ask you to cook for these large dinners with their friends, with the 'greats' you said they came from all over the world? 22 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:51.000 Signora Margaret was really good, she was good at everything she made Japanese dishes, or chicken salad with pasta, carrots, green beans which was extraordinary. She made an enormous dish of that which she put on the table. 23 00:06:52.000 --> 00:07:11.000 She made lasagne like other families made it , she made cannelloni more often but she preferred lasagne more , she prepared, so example, olives in all different ways. 24 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:34.000 In water, crushed, or pitted. Then fruit, carrots, fennel, white celery, washed well, cut into chunks and everyone ate them like this.. 25 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:56.000 They ate very simply, not rich dishes or even a starter of sliced meats, no! Always the same nice things, light which were not unhealthy. 26 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:17.000 The professor always said' I have to get to 2000 here! And in 2000 he left' here and (returned to the United States where he stayed another 4/5 years , I don't remember it very well but something like that 27 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:23.000 Pasta and beans, who taught you? 28 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:56.000 They made it much richer in America, they also used cold cuts sliced into chunks. Here I always used carrots, celery, onions cut into small chunks,,chopped tomatoes or small chopped potato pieces like this. It's a soup. 29 00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:21.000 So for pasta with beans,celery, and tomato. When there weren't these ingredients a vegetable soup was made, for example, potato, endive,cabbage, what was in the fridge,nothing was wasted. 30 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:33.000 This soup was made, mixing green, white, red, multicoloured with a little oil and a little salt. They always wanted little oil used. 31 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:36.000 And the vegetables? 32 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:51.000 What was in the garden because it was Angelo who planted the vegetables and the Signora cultivated strawberries in a tiny piece of land 33 00:09:52.000 --> 00:10:02.000 Uncle Enrico said 'break off this piece of land and don't let Angelo touch it, otherwise he'll grow strawberries' 34 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:07.000 Was there a kitchen garden in the villa that they had here in Pioppi? 35 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:29.000 Yes, the kitchen garden was almost all fruit, there were even two apples trees, In the winter, oranges, lemons, grapefruit, sour orange I think, bitter! 36 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:32.000 Yes chinotto – bitter orange 37 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:48.000 Home made marmalade, never bought. Even Stamler when his wife was young 38 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:51.000 Signora Rose? 39 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:57.000 Signora Rose was very nice as well, very compassionate 40 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:04.000 Were the Keys interested in the traditional Cilento cuisine? Did they want to see how you ate? 41 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:26.000 Yes, they often ate at the house of Uncle Enrico, Alessandro and the Doctor, by often I mean in the festivities, New Year and Easter. 42 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:42.000 As to how it went, the next day they would say 'Delia we ate too much last night, we'll starve for the next 15 days, we have to go easy 43 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:47.000 And I would say, 'Don't' worry we'll eat a lot of vegetables' 44 00:11:48.000 --> 00:12:07.000 They also used a lot of pepperoni though, Stamler made the pasta, very simple, garlic, parsley, basil cut into tiny pieces, a little water, a little oil and let it cook 45 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:21.000 They cooked the spaghetti in this and ate it as a side dish, or a main course. Always using seasonal vegetables.. 46 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:27.000 What was Margaret's favourite dish? 47 00:12:28.000 --> 00:13:10.000 As I said before Japanese salad. For Thanksgiving they had stuffed turkey. In the early years when they were younger and they came from America to spend Christmas here, they always brought the turkey with all its trimmings. 48 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:30.000 The Signora explained to me,and I don't know how to explain it better, that there are certain small plants which have a fruit like a small cherry which grow in their woods 49 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:55.000 They made a cream with this fruit and spread it onto slices of bread which they baked in the oven at home, she said that they always made bread at her mothers', certainly not with a wooden oven because you only find them here. 50 00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:25.000 They filled the turkey with the stuff they had brought and cooked it in the oven. Uncle Enrico, with a lot of patience, lit the wooden oven to cook that turkey, it was a great holiday. 51 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:28.000 Really it was delicious! 52 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:46.000 Yes it was really good, always with little salt and seasoning, they said that it wasn't necessary that the pork fat was fat enough 53 00:14:47.000 --> 00:15:02.000 But all oils have fat and to have a perfect diet ( a tablespoon of oil per person per day is sufficient) 54 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:06.000 How many spoons of oil a day do you eat? 55 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:21.000 Truthfully sometimes none,but sometimes I like tomato salad, I have to dip in the bread 56 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:26.000 What was the professor's favourite dish? 57 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:46.000 Honestly he didn't have a favourite dish, he tasted things in moderation, he preferred dried figs before going to bed. 58 00:15:48.000 --> 00:16:00.000 In the morning when I went into the bedroom I would find two stems on the bedside table. The professor had a dessert last night. 59 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:08.000 The Professor also told that your spaghetti with octopus was delicious, can you tell us the recipe? 60 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:33.000 Chop the octopus, place in a saucepan, according to the size of the octopus add a chopped onion, more or less this size, for the two of them I didn't add more than 7 chopped tomatoes 61 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:45.000 Octopus splatters in oil, I added a little oil, always olive oil, I never cooked it in peach seed oil 62 00:16:46.000 --> 00:17:10.000 Assemble all the ingredients onto a plate and place on top of a saucepan full of water, cook it slowly slowly and you get a sauce, it takes quite a time, you need an hour, an hour and a half, depending on the quantity. 63 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:22.000 And this is a first course with spaghetti, I repeat that the Signora was very good,she didn't need a hand to cook pasta. 64 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:50.000 They ate their most important meal in the evening, while we eat ours at midday and go to bed lighter. They worked in the day especially away, they had something light in the canteen and in the evening ate and went to sleep nice and full 65 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:53.000 Your favourite dish? 66 00:17:54.000 --> 00:18:15.000 Home made fusilli with wild mushrooms or ravioli, always home made, with a rich meat sauce (ragù) not used so much now as it's difficult to digest 67 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:32.000 It's not made any more as it's been discovered that it's bad for you. It was my favourite dish because I was greedy because we were far away. 68 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:37.000 And the ragù of another time how was it made? 69 00:18:38.000 --> 00:19:03.000 For another time we have to talk about 1940-1950 when almost every family raised pigs, then slaughtered them and also kept hens, goats for cheese and eggs. 70 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:27.000 Then the ragù was made with a little pork, then a few chicken thighs, a little pork sausage, a little vaccine it was so difficult in those times 71 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:46.000 Then later, slowly, slowly, this mixture developed, a little pork, a little vaccine, a little chicken, sausage, you would have to starve for 20 days 72 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:52.000 Did they ever talk about their research around the world? 73 00:19:53.000 --> 00:20:22.000 Research was made in Japan, Portugal, Spain, Germany, England and obtained results for example, for those who had changed their life style, how many years more they continued to live, so now and again the results of some nation arrived. 74 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:37.000 For example these have managed to live 15 years more, these 10 and I would say 'And you Professor will you get to 2000?' 75 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:44.000 You also participated in a research project on the Mediterranean diet,can you tell us? 76 00:20:45.000 --> 00:21:06.000 Our experiment consisted in comparing our food with their American. We had first to eat their American food for a month and a half, all rich stuff 77 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:42.000 When we ate a dish called Four Cheeses, we were filled with cheese, mascarpone, everything fatty, but after 10 days – stop – because then there were doctors who took a blood sample every 8 days to see how if our levels had increased 78 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:59.000 My husband carried on until the end, while I had to stop because my cholesterol level had gone sky high. Then we had a month and a half eating our food and that's how the Mediterranean diet came about. 79 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:22.000 As they were all simple dishes, in the end they are vegetables, everything from the countryside, beans, peas, broad beans, artichokes, potatoes, everything which doesn't have many calories. 80 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:34.000 So, the Mediterranean diet, this lovely Italian gift, was born, I hope that the Professor can hear me in the other world 81 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:45.000 Ancel Keys (died in 2004 at the age of 100, Signora Margaret at the age of 97 in your opinion was it their lifestyle which made them so long-lived? 82 00:22:46.000 --> 00:23:12.000 I believe so because Stamler never drank coffee with sugar, more than 40 years, have passed, we are in 2013 and he was a guest in the Key's home for the first time around 83 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:34.000 then he bought some land and built a house in a year, I cannot remember him every taking coffee with sugar or eating any other sweets. When they made marmalade they didn't add much sugar, it had to taste more sour than sweet. 84 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:55.000 then they would toast slices of bread and spread it on - not a big spoon - they also said that they only spread a little chocolate cream as children should be taught to do the same while they were young. 85 00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:23.000 Milk is good for children as they need calcium for bones, those many snacks that they take to school, he hated them because children should grow healthy and he was right. 86 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:29.000 If you could talk to Messrs Keys again for 5 minutes what would you say? 87 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:41.000 Mamma mia, first I would hug both of them and them say 'Thank you for all that you taught me' 88 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:55.000 I believe that now and again Signora Margaret is close by because she says ' Don't worry I'll be nearby and close. 89 00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:09.000 Thank you Delia for this beautiful interview, thank you very much for your marvelous memories, we'll try to make them known to the world, it really needs experiences such as these. 90 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:23.000 Especially the children, keep in mind what the Professor said 'Teach them when they are young not old.